Any exhaustion/endurance/stamina system?

[Farwalker]

I couldn't find any information on such a system integrated into TDN.
Are there plans for future mechanics which could benefit a high stamina character with the ability to run/swim/carryitems further or faster than lower stamina characters, or the ability to endure longer periods of combat without suffering potential exhaustion penalties?
I think this is an interesting and realistic system to have in place which could add more character diversity, allowing characters with higher stamina the alternative strategy of simply outrunning opponents when the going gets tough, or combining kiting and tiring out their less resilient opponent to the point of exhaustion with exhaustion penalties including slightly lower movement speed, lower damage/attack accuracy, higher spell failure, etc.

Example:
A big fat guy vs a slim nimble guy in a boxing match. One has a bunch of clogged arteries only able to fight vigorously for 3 minutes before complete exhaustion, but in that time can do some serious damage to the slim guy while the slim guy didn't inflict much damage to the big guy, but his energy levels are maintained longer allowing him the option to run away after 3 minutes without (unrealistically) being chased at equal speed by his stronger, overweight opponent.

 

[Blissey]

I like realism in my games, I think it adds depth. But realism can also be a massive burden on player enjoyment if not dished out well and executed with enough foresight. I've experienced exhaustion systems on other servers and frankly, I think they're pretty horrendous. There's no real way I can see it done without making the gameplay feel like an utter chore. As it stands, TDN is already quite difficult - I don't really see much value in adding an extra layer of difficulty over that. I'm certainly open to people suggesting alternatives, but ultimately I feel the onus should be left on the player whether or not they want to roleplay their exhaustion.

 

[Farwalker]

I don't understand how it would create a more "difficult" experience. More realistic and fair, but difficult to the point of being "horrendous?"
Did the other servers you experienced exhaustion systems on not allow your character's exhaustion to go away after a minute of inactivity?

Without exhaustion, the world can have characters unrealistically running around or sparring for hours on end without the need to take a break.
In my opinion it's more immersive if your party actually needs to catch their breath after outrunning an ogre/monster for 5 minutes straight or whatever because let's be honest, without that actual need to rest, 99% of parties would NOT stop in such an example because most online players prefer min-maxing over roleplaying if they're given the choice.
I'd be absolutely amazed if an online player chose to say to their party: "(OOC) Hey guys let's stop and roleplay our party getting tired now."

 

[Blissey]

To answer the first question, yes. It was horrendous. It was so bad that players just often flat out played to avoid it by any means necessary, and that in itself gamified it and didn't actually generate any RP. Sure, the first few times it happened to someone, they'd roleplay it, but consistently enough it got in the way, made things drag out unnecessarily or just made the actual game experience incredibly tedious. It eventually created an environment where minmaxing to avoid it was basically the status quo. To answer your second question, no, it did not go away after a minute of inactivity. You had to rest to remove it entirely, or wait at least 10-20 minutes.

Like I said, can it be done well? Sure! Why not? Like other realism systems like hunger/thirst, they can be made enjoyable but more often than not they aren't. I won't speak for all that play, but I know those that come home after a long day of work and simply want to run a dungeon shouldn't need to worry about the tedium of making sure your character has kept up with their cardio and won't run out of breath. Exhaustion can be representation of HP, as well. Players pause to 'catch their breath', and that may involve healing or mending things in other ways. If you want your fellow party members to roleplay their exhaustion like that, sure! I'm sure some would enjoy that. Personally, I emote my character's exhaustion after a long and arduous fight but I don't expect my peers to do so as well - they play their characters how they feel works for them in that moment.

 

[Farwalker]

Okay that does indeed sound poorly implemented, making you and your party have to actually use the rest function for the removal of exhaustion, which can unnecessarily take 5+ minutes out of adventuring to use the in-game rest function, taking longer depending on rest rules and how high your character's level is, not to mention having to rebuff or whatever after the rest function resets your character.

I only came in with the perspective of exhaustion being implemented well, where each minute you're consistently running, spellcasting, or in combat, the stamina of your character went down in increments.
At 66% stamina remaining, you'd get your first fatigue warning. At 33% stamina remaining, a second warning message, and at 0 stamina remaining, you are exhausted and incur some exhaustion penalties for a minute.
Then every minute you were not consistently running, spellcasting, or in combat, the stamina of your character went back up in increments, removing any penalties when higher than 0 stamina to eventually become 100% stamina again.
No in-game rest function was needed to replenish stamina.

I agree with your point that a character's current HP, sourced by the constitution ability, can sort of represent how exhausted your character is. HP is potentially depleted by combat, and a character reaching low HP is not as likely to take on more opponents in combat without first resting just like they wouldn't continue if they were exhausted.
And you're right, HP can also represent how healthy or unfit a character is to begin with. In the example I previously used of a big fat guy vs a nimble guy, the unfit guy would be the one with less max HP from choosing less constitution to begin with, and after taking enough damage to HP in combat, would be less likely to chase after the nimble guy who wants to escape combat if the nimble guy still has lots of HP remaining.

That said, it's not quite as immersive as a properly implemented exhaustion system.
Furthermore, low HP alone won't deter characters from unrealistically running around indefinitely, which is my main concern; Immersion breaking.
To me, no stamina or exhaustion causes characters to seem that much more homogenized, flat, and unrealistic.
i.e. there's no actual advantage for any character who decides to roleplay challenging another character to a race.
i.e. A party of adventurers capable of running from one continent to another, non-stop, meeting up with second party who was waiting for them and then the first party saying "okay let's keep running to whatever dungeon" without stopping for a minute to catch their breath. That's just one example of many.

For the benefit of greater immersion, I'd still love an exhaustion/stamina system, but a lack of one wouldn't keep me from enjoying the game.

 

[Kilivin]

Gameplay mechanics ought to reflect the feeling that the game is trying to implement. In that sense, the systems they have are related to and revolve around the use of magic and the difficulties in casting it. Involving game systems for no feeling you're intending to evoke out of players just makes a game busy and overcomplicated. If TDN isn't a survival themed game, including survival elements doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Elena]

In my opinion it's more immersive if your party actually needs to catch their breath after outrunning an ogre/monster for 5 minutes straight or whatever because let's be honest, without that actual need to rest, 99% of parties would NOT stop in such an example because most online players prefer min-maxing over roleplaying if they're given the choice.
I'd be absolutely amazed if an online player chose to say to their party: "(OOC) Hey guys let's stop and roleplay our party getting tired now."

I see it like this: If a system is needed to force people to do something, it takes away freedom. The option is there, for anyone to slow down, stop, and hold their breath. And then it is the individual responsibility of each player to adapt/react IC. That being said, I think it is already immersion breaking if an OOC tell is needed to tell a group of players "Hey guys, let's stop and RP our party is getting tired."
Just do it, without the tell. If your group keeps walking and does not respond - For whatever reason - well.. there you have something to act on IC, depending on your character.

Generally, I like systems that give options, when they dictate or force.. not so much.

 

[Danuvis]

While a system like this is to my personal liking, and indeed fits in with TDN's general want for realism (within reason), it's unfortunately also one of those systems that are incredibly difficult to pull off in a way that doesn't just drive away players. In my experience exhaustion systems tend to go one of two ways, in that it's either too oppressive (and so a total headache for the majority, and tedium tends to be ignored by players rather than roleplayed) or too lenient (at which point it may as well not exist imo, similarly tends to go ignored in RP when it's not noticeable enough through mechanics).

At this time we have no plans for introducing any such system.