The First Month of TDN

[TwistyShape]

The first month of TDN has come and gone with some epic highs, some disappointing lows, and 4-hour queue times spanning both! We've seen an assortment of in-game factions blossom, two distinct newspapers, characters carving out bold reputations and a particular club that we don't talk about as it is the first rule. I think it's safe to say that the server started off strong, and we were fortunate to be part of it. Unfortunately, for various reasons, things have not remained this way, and the tension within the community is palpable. I believe it's time we provided feedback on our server experience in a, and I say this as loudly as possible for those at the back, CONSTRUCTIVE manner.

This thread is to outline our personal feelings, positive and/or negative, towards our first month with TDN proper. This is not a thread to debate opinions or try to curry favour but to come together as a community and highlight the good, the bad, and the painful so we can help TDN flourish into what we want it to be. Please do not attack each other, please try and give more feedback beyond "This is shit" and please, stay respectful. Whatever is outlined and identified in the following posts is for us to resolve as a community, not as Staff versus Players, but as a collaborative effort. Therefore, if you have any suggestions on how to address your issues, please include them.

With all that said and done, I would like to conclude this preamble with a message to the staff that I hope the rest of the community will echo. As a player, I am immensely grateful for your hard work and efforts over this first month. It has been turbulent and bumpy, and that's simply from an outsider's perspective. The following thread is created in an attempt to give people a location to air thoughts and feedback and, hopefully, relieve some tension within the discord and beyond. If we're lucky, this could potentially highlight some of the key aspects the community wishes to see resolved, and if we're not lucky... At least it gives some a void into which they can scream.

 

[Bernard]

The short version of my criticism is that it has felt as though there is very little for me to do as a Conclave-adjacent elven druid other than run one of four dungeons and sit around the campfire. The plot around the rejection of elves from Murann seems to have dried up until someone pours water on it by pushing that conflict beyond the boundaries of Murann; I must just have bad timing with a lot of the other things if people say there is something going on around that. I wouldn't know. I just haven't felt motivated to log in as of late.

A system I liked about EFU is that they have special boss enemies in the wilderness which you can fight and kill with a dedicated team to obtain special maguffins that advance a plot, and that always seemed like a no-brainer to me for NWN from then on. If we begun making changes like that I'd be very into it! Otherwise, just give us goals to achieve - they don't need to be complicated and I don't even mind if it's just a grind. Whatever, you know? Anything would be good.

 

[Casmen]

Right, I think this is a great idea as we discussed before and therefore I will provide my feedback.

So far I have really loved this server, I think the RP here even just the generic RP is on the high end of the scale, with some great characters that for the most part fit the setting and help create a living world. As well as a ton of small DM interactions with random characters that may seem unimportant but help make the world seem living, and show that not all DM "posessings" are huge grand plot points

Though on the more problematic side, a thing I've experienced myself and I know a few people taking a break from the server from is that there are simply no consistent way to earn money without going to dungeons, and as someone who plays a character that does not go on adventures it proves some great difficulty. most civvie jobs you earn 2sp/hour which to earn your most basic of writs that is 200sp is 100 in game hours which is fortunately "only" 25 IRL hours which.. nobody is going to want to do, and that is for the jobs that do work. And though I know it is a fix you guys are likely working on, it is definitely something that needs to be top priority (which it might)

Besides that there is simply not a whole lot to do, RP and Dungeons, and with the level cap we can see a large group of people just leaving as they hit 8 who'll no doubt return when they can level again, so it would be nice with a greater variety of actions that does not involve combat.

These are all views from my side, and I will say I think the staff has done a great job at making fixes, answering questions and likely doing huge work behind the scenes given the flood of varying tickets, it is nice to be on a server where one feels heard and not like one is a bother when a concern is brought up to the staff, and I think that is one of the servers big strengths.

 

[TwistyShape]

Gonna keep it real simple and make it a positive, neutral and negative list so:

Positive

• Queue System - Having going through the utter nightmare of clicking the shit out of the directory, this made life so much easier. Was it a pain to wait 4+ hours? Sure! But a necessary evil that gave everyone a fair shot and, was added to love time.
• Visuals - The visuals of TDN continue to blow me away, feeling like a total conversion mode in terms of fidelity and the fact the entire community (from what I saw) stayed within the realms of what was expected with all the new fashions of Amn
• Tilesets - The areas, exteriors and interiors are some of the most thoroughly fleshed-out areas I've come across since playing NwN PWs. Interesting and varied, exploring feels like a charm, not a chore with random encounters being some of the most blood-pumping scenarios. There are also a great number of aesthetics that apply to an assortment of styles!
• DM Slice of Life Encounters - The numerous small interactions in Muraan, hosted by DM's, were a brilliant way to enliven the character of the city. From muggings in the Row to executions at the Hall of Justice, I've only witnessed a small portion of these cameo scenes, but they significantly transform a backdrop into a vibrant new character.
• The Community By and Large - Generally speaking, every player I've met has been fantastic. The quality of RP has truly been a blessing. It has been wonderful to see players engaging with the world or even doing their part to bring a little flavour to Muraan, whether as a clown, thief, or cobbler. It's great to witness players living out their themes and goals.

Neutral

• Jobs - I love the jobs, and I loathe them. I have the understanding that the job system is unfinished yet, but it would be fantastic if they paid more, even before they were fully implemented as I feel that would certainly supplement the 'time investment' to RP by yourself... Except for Bar Wenches...
• Tone - One of the biggest conflicts I've encountered is tone, both on and off the server. As weeks have gone by, the anti-magic and racist tones that were supposed to be prevalent on the server have gradually diminished. While I understand that not everyone wants to engage in roleplay conflict all the time, I believe there are instances where the clearly defined themes of the server are forgotten for mechanical advantages.

Negative

• Contrasting Enforcement - Within the first month of TDN we've seen a drastic contrast in how certain aspects of the server are ruled. I won't go into specificity but I feel there has been a rather stern fist on some topics, and yet a lack of any demonstrable outcomes on others, this has created tension within the community.
• RP Focus vs PvE Focus - (This ones going to stir the pot) I personally feel the server has slowly begun to take a similar focus as with many other servers in that PvE content, and those who seek it, are more actively rewarded than those people who focus more on RP. Putting aside conversations of "RP is its own reward", those who actively engage often in PvE are richer, have more equipment and, sadly, seem to run into DM Events more than those who focus on RP, this has led to a gradual shift of people wanting to focus more on PvE and less on RP over time.

Within the above lists, I've done my best to stay away from any mechanical issues which are something much grander to fix. We are all aware of mechanical issues, but unfortunately, I have no sway over how to resolve those or, insider knowledge and suggestions, so I'm not going to comment on something I know nothing about. Thanks for reading.

 

[Tessaria]

Casmen and Twisty make some excellent points, and I agree with them - especially the one about money, which is the source of my biggest concern.

At present, my ability to earn silver consists of either 1) traveling to one of the few hotly contested adventure areas and hoping for good luck during the time I can go there, which is in my evenings after work, or 2) working a shop job that only pays eight silver per RL hour, and even then only during the game's daytime cycle. I slogged through a full daytime cycle earlier, while I was at my RL job and unable to adventure, and I earned a whopping 24s for sitting mostly by myself in a small room for three RL hours. It was torturous and un-fun, but what's my alternative when the wilds have been made even harder for folks who aren't dedicated adventurers with hours upon hours to explore each day? To be clear, I'm not faulting those with more time to spend gaming on a given day. But just like combat XP was removed and RP XP was capped, I wish there were measures in place so that my PC could at least afford her licenses and daily Noticeboard Notices without having to resort to such measures.

That aside, I truly enjoy the RP; almost everyone I've encountered is top-notch. There is so much potential here, and I'm excited to see it unfold. I genuinely believe that everyone involved on the TDN team wants to see it succeed, and I know the players want the same.

 

[OccamsClub]

Honestly, my major gripe is simple:

The walling off of Eneyri and Cir'thowe or Y'tellarien natives was, IMO, handled poorly.

The introduction to the server and advice given to players was that these native PCs would be best played with experience of the culture of the setting.

Some players (me) listened to this advice, and made non-natives to help become involved in the culture, so that they could play a more genuine native without going counter to the lore.
Others simply drove in blind, ignored this advice, and caused issues with how natives were portrayed - likely leading to what happened next.

The staff suddenly and without warning, completely locked off the ability to make these concepts, without even the ability to apply for exemption. I made a ticket trying to slide in before the lock, and was refused, despite having worked up a level 6, RP-heavy character that was made primarily to help me research the role.

Players who ignored the servers warnings and requests now have unique, grandfathered concepts that are not available to others. Players who listened to the advice with the intent to do the server lore justice are, effectively, screwed when it comes to pursuing them.

It's left me concerned that any setting-entwined concept players pursue may be suddenly slammed shut on them with no warning or recourse, as this is the path that's been chosen here.

With the benefits of hindsight, I feel these concepts should have been app-only from the start if there was ever the concern that there would need to be controls on them.

(Edit to add - Don't feel targetted if you're one of the well-played natives, of which there are certainly many who also did their research. )
__________

Outside of this, which I hope is taken as just the genuine feedback that it is, TDN has been an overwhelmingly positive experience. DM activity and presence has been great, the day-to-day bantering and atmosphere is wonderful.

• Tone - One of the biggest conflicts Ive encountered is tone, both on and off the server. As weeks have gone by, the anti-magic and racist tones that were supposed to be prevalent on the server have gradually diminished.

I kind of agree, but that's always going to be a difficult sell. Warlocks still feel persecuted and dangerous, for good reason.

But at least half the classes are magic-users, and the rest greatly benefit from magic. Humans are a majority, but not an overwhelming one. Most players associate open bigotry with evil, and aren't playing Evil characters. This simply means that in a crowd of 20 PCs, maybe 1-2 concepts there would agree that we should kill all these elf mages, and the rest of that crowd look at them as deranged and murderous conspiracy nuts. Rocking the boat is hard and ostracising, and the boat will always sail down the path of least resistance and greatest reward - which is going 'Neat, we have a warder, let's hit the crypts, then.'

The solution for this would probably be to narrow down the targets of bigotry to a smaller piece of the pie. "All non-human mages are bad" is impossible to maintain in a PW environment. "All elves, warlocks, shamans, and sorcerers are bad" is more achievable.

 

[Muninn]

I can second Twistyshape's wording; it sums up my feelings perfectly. There is much positive to say, and I enjoy the server immensely.
I want to adventure more; however, I often stumble upon empty areas, and finding a group to head out with isn't easy. There is a shift in server culture regarding this.
Hah, and yeah, city RP doesn't pay the bills, so that would be only one minus; I have found myself logging off because of it.

 

[Bernard]

"Humans are a majority, but not an overwhelming one..."
Actually, fun fact: half-elves are the most played race on TDN. Thought I'd throw that fun fact out there!

 

[TwistyShape]

This simply means that in a crowd of 20 PCs, maybe 1-2 concepts there would agree that we should kill all these elf mages

I don't want to spend too long on this fragment of a wider topic, but I just want to be clear. You can be a bigot without wanting to kill people. You can look at people weirdly, not allow them in your groups or cross the street to stay away from them. In a crowd to 20 PC's 1-2 people wanting to kill them, sounds about right. But out of 20 PC's, only 2 of them, being a little paranoid about the idea of magic, is not aligned to the setting. I'm going to leave the snippet of magic-centric lore here:

• The regard of magic changed universally, largely for the worse. Many distrusted any and all magic, whether divine or arcane, and some even saw its return as something to oppose, completely outlawing it, or limiting its use to those licensed by a local government. No matter the country or kingdom, magic was less understood and more unpredictable than ever, and subsequently more often than not simply feared. The common people know little of magic, and understand it only as a force to be reckoned with, with mysterious arcanists and divine servants behind great and unbelievable events. Those more worldly see it as yet another tool, but one to be checked no differently than the presence of armed men. These factors breed suspicion if not outright hostility in people towards any who practice magic in any form. While magic is not outlawed in many parts of the world, countless will find the practice of magic to be suspicious, and may readily assume dark arts or a more foul power at work.

 

[verðandi]

I'd like to second a lot of what was said before, primarily by TwistyShape, Casmen and OccamsClub.

There are a lot of things I like, such as the setting and the fantastic graphics and equipment (top notch, truly!), the queue, the lack of combat XP that keeps people roleplaying, among many other things, but I also some I find concerning.

Currently it comes across to me like the server is moving towards the accent lying on on PvE content over deeper roleplay. Adventure areas are farmed heavily and people are cliquish, both in Murann and elf-ville, often ignoring newer roleplayers in an "us vs them" with established groups and natives and narrow interpretations of what that means. A lot of people ignore server guidelines for character colours and clothing.

If I may offer a suggestion to staff, you might want to look into adjusting the loot system. For example, you could consider making loot personal, and enable each player to loot each crate once every X time increments, such as 2 hours. You could have a simple system of 5 loots per ten days where you get one use back every 36-48 hours, stacking up to 5. Loot value can be adjusted accordingly. People can grind their loot runs out on their free days, or spread out if they please. Profession/job gains may also need to be looked at for balance.

As I see the server currently, the risk you're facing is that the heavy roleplayers who respect the setting actually end up leaving.

Also, as a P.S., the weather. Could we have a bit more clear skies and sun? I understand some rain what with the rainy season and all, but snow in Ches seems out of place.

 

[Codyo]

I agree with the sentiment that there are more rewards for people grinding dungeons than those who are primarily spending time roleplaying. I have built tons of relationships. Tied my character's background in with the city of Murann. I have an issue where I can't walk down the streets in Murann without getting myself involved in some 30 minute or hours long scene with another player, while there are others who go to silently wait for a group of random adventurers to party up. But I have no way of making money except to beg others for gifts or burn through the same 3 dungeons in a row.

This part may be more due to my own late night schedule, but the only time I have seen DMs drive the setting, like another had mentioned in this thread, is during a dungeon run spitting one or two extra kobolds at us. Or to inhabit a guard to tell other characters off.

Overall, I'm disappointed with the lack of economy. That my character with 15+ hours of RP time on it is basically bankrupt and I still have the worst possible equipment that is getting worse over time with the durability system.

 

[OccamsClub]

I dont want to spend too long on this fragment of a wider topic, but I just want to be clear. You can be a bigot without wanting to kill people. You can look at people weirdly, not allow them in your groups or cross the street to stay away from them. In a crowd to 20 PCs 1-2 people wanting to kill them, sounds about right. But out of 20 PCs, only 2 of them, being a little paranoid about the idea of magic, is not aligned to the setting.

Apologies, my dialect often has me frequently making exaggerations in the name of conveying an idea, which can be confusing. 'Kill the mages' in this case mainly just refers to any strong anti-mage sentiment.

I've really not seen the 'cliquey' behaviour that's described. Elfhome sort of falls over itself to greet newcomers, and feels strongly like a large, distant family. Murann is a bit tougher, and requires some more active effort to become part of a crowd and known, but honestly this feels extremely accurate to both elf and city life.

 

[vantamasque]

Want to echo that I haven't really noticed cliquey behavior either; on two characters, both on elf-side and Murann-side, I've been able to reliably form connections and break into the crowd(s) I had my eye on. Murann I found especially noteworthy, considering how I'd been hearing it was difficult to break into a crowd there, but day one on that character I got RP, and the next day I put myself out there and got involved with a sick group of people. Take it from me, a hermit by nature: it's possible.

 

[TwistyShape]

Ive really not seen the cliquey behaviour thats described.

While there are perhaps one or two 'groups', I'd certainly not consider any of them cliques compared to other servers I've seen, but I don't want to get into libel territory.